Yes, eugenics alive and well, why???....Because wholesale extermination or subjugation and flat-out slavery, tends to make folks riled, ornery, and non-compliant....What we need to develop is a vaccine for empire.....

This interview is so full of weasel words and misrepresentation of our scientific community. Conspiracy theories galore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy

This lawyer speaks with such certainty, how does he rebut all of these large-scale studies which show that autism rates are unchanged (or actually increase a tiny amount) when Thiomersal isn't used?

This study from Denmark http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/290/13/1763 shows that 20,000 children who received no Thiomersal had the same autism risk. Increasing dosages of Thiomersal didn't cause increasing in autism rate.

What can this guy possibly say about that study? There was no nuance in what he was claiming -- he very much implied that Thiomersal was the exclusive source of autism. That autism hadn't even existed before it was used.

He's just a weasel. There's no way an objective person can review the literature and make the conclusions that he's made.

Yeah, it's just a bit more complicated than the divisive "Would you rather autism or the flu?". I'd also say that there really is no solid scientific consensus on the issue for it to be so cut and dry. Is the guy in the interview really implying that before the onset of vaccines, autism didn't exist? Schizophrenia and other mental disorders didn't "exist" before we actually knew what they were either.

Edit: Basically what rychan said.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

While I actually agree with with the interviewee, it's not journalism when the guy asking the questions completely agrees with everything the interviewee says. Still *promote for the discussion this will undoubtedly inspire.

Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Saturday, July 12th, 2008 3:35pm PDT - promote requested by dag.

What also floats in water?
A duck. Exactly! So logically......If....she..weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood.
And therefore?
A witch!
A witch!

Why is it that physics requires experiments with repeatable and predictable results, but with medicine, it all goes out the window. There is no other branch of science that even comes close in the amount of misinformation, superstition, and speculation.

"In politics, science always gets diluted" Yeah, he's right on that one. Put the press or politicians on some science and it gets diluted alright.

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^ You're right SD, and I think in this instance the reason that people tend to be so passionate & unwilling to accept the word of the folks in the lab coats is that it potentially effects their kids. Cold logic takes a back seat to the mammalian protection instinct.

I don't know that Thimerosal causes autism. I do know that I did not want mercury injected into my newborns. That's the crazy mammal in me coming out - but damn if that instinct hasn't been honed by millions of years of mammals protecting their young. I bow to it.

When making that decision I weighed up the potential that my kids could catch a deadly disease with the possibility that science and medicine may have got it wrong on this one. It was a tough decision.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

The Rolling Stone article:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/

^
I don't mean to downplay the humanity of it. Of course the stakes in medicine are higher. Who cares what happens to a particle in an accelerator? Putting a life in harm's way is a whole different matter. Any parent understands the misgivings another parent might have about possible links. However, the larger public health hazard of kids not being immunized puts other kids at risk. So, as a parent, that concerns me. Polio was on the verge of joining small pox as a laboratory curiosity. Conspiracy theories in Nigeria (fearing that immunizations were a western plot to sterilize Muslims), allowed another outbreak. All evidence supports the fact that the collective public health benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks of the vaccine, (which is not, and never will be zero).

But what really pisses me off about this type of reporting is the conspiracy/cover-up aspect. By association, it makes all doctors conspirators. We know more about the science of these things than anyone. The Academy of Pediatrics and the World Health Organization are knowingly putting kids at risk? Give me a break. Every physician taking care of kids should feel personally insulted and defamed by such claims of deliberate medical malfeasance by neglect.

sounds like he's about to cry.

Oh Jesus christ protect us! Scientists don't just want to kill kids in the womb anymore! Who can stop the rampant babycide/caust?

Scientist: Shut your hole ignorant windbag.

My Imagination: 1. The world: 0.

>> ^rychan:
This interview is so full of weasel words and misrepresentation of our scientific community. Conspiracy theories galore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy
This lawyer speaks with such certainty, how does he rebut all of these large-scale studies which show that autism rates are unchanged (or actually increase a tiny amount) when Thiomersal isn't used?
This study from Denmark http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/290/13/1763 shows that 20,000 children who received no Thiomersal had the same autism risk. Increasing dosages of Thiomersal didn't cause increasing in autism rate.
What can this guy possibly say about that study? There was no nuance in what he was claiming -- he very much implied that Thiomersal was the exclusive source of autism. That autism hadn't even existed before it was used.
He's just a weasel. There's no way an objective person can review the literature and make the conclusions that he's made.


I tihnk there are other factors involved...but nobody can deny the odd coincidences with autism and vaccines. The fact that you dismiss an arguement based on an irrelevant wikki entry written by fellow american's and likely a proponent of pharmaceuticals is astounding. You should take someone's word who does the real studies and has done so for a long time. Maybe there is no direct correlation right now, but something is going on, and Judos to this guy for trying to figure it out. And Fuck you for your dismissive, ignorant, and lame ass excuses.

Dysphonia is sexy!

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

I don't think he is maligning doctors - more the pharma-industrial complex.

"Correlation does not equal causation", just for starters.

This is a very hard controvery to come at, from any angle, because - as it has already been pointed out here - the emotional factor is tremendously high. People need answers when something disrupts the tranquility of their lives. And doubly so when it affects the life of their offspring. The title of this video made me shoot an eyebrow in disgust, because there still is no absolute evidence saying ethyl mercury causes autism. I'd recommend a change in the title of the video submission.

Cases like autism run the gambit of being difficult to diagnose. The more medical science and psychological science advances, the more symptoms will be discovered that lead to the diagnosing of conditions such as autism. Does this mean something is causing more of these conditions? Or does it mean there's been a lot more cases of the conditions which went unnoticed before we had the means to find it?

And, of course, while we are all incredibly similar (sorry, you're not all beautiful snowflakes) there are subtle inconsistences. There will be those outliers on the Bell Curves that Ethyl Mercury might have a more significant effect on, and only time and testing will tell us why this is happening, and where it is happening. I'm not suggesting that we continue to use children as test subjects, but more in depth research needs to be done looking for a causal link. Why did it cause autism (if it did at all) in these particular children, yet not in others (like myself, and I'm sure most of the people on this site)?

Science's self-correcting error mechanisms, when seperated from overbearing emotional aspects, can help solve these issues. Human emotion, while part of our nature, can hinder such advancements and discoveries. "Losing our head" in the quest for answers won't get us any closer to the answers we want.

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^ How about common sense - that injecting mercury directly into an infant's bloodstream - might not be the best idea. Regardless of whether it causes autism or not.

For me, the answer was pretty straight forward. It's selfish, and if we were living in an undeveloped nation, my answer might have been different.

Also, from things I've looked at, the fall-off in polio and other diseases in the US happened way before vaccines were common and had to do with better understanding of hygiene and sterilisation required to prevent the spread.

>> ^dag:
I don't think he is maligning doctors - more the pharma-industrial complex.


Who conducts the studies for the pharm-industrial complex? Doctors. Who is responsible for knowing the effects of the administered treatment? Doctors. Doctors are the distributors of the pharma-industrial complex. It's a bit like a dealer saying, I didn't make the dope, I just sold it to you, sorry I didn't know the potency and you OD'ed.
Older and established drugs and treatments have been studied so thoroughly that deception is nearly impossible. The greater risk is with newly released drugs. We have seen a few recent instances of what I would consider to be deliberate downplaying of preliminary studies suggesting negative outcomes. When that happens, there can only be one reason, $$$$$.

Immunization is the cornerstone of polio, smallpox, and measles eradication. Irrefutable.
http://www.polioeradication.org/history.asp

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

I'm definitely not arguing that vaccines haven't saved many, many lives - but I would posit that a better understanding of how infectious diseases transmitted helped too. Quarantine, hygiene - better health and diet in the 20th century all had a role to play.

I understand the "free-loader" dilemma too, and recongnise that it was selfish choice.

Dag, you're right, however there is a difference between methyl mercury - which is the really bad stuff everyone thinks of when they hear the word "mercury" - and ethyl mercury. The difference being that ethyl mercury has been shown not to bioaccumulate, which means it is not absorbed faster in an organism than it is lost naturally. Methyl mercury is the opposite and does bioaccumulate.

This is why the ethylmercury salt sodium, ethylmercuric thiosalicylate, is used in Thimersol as a preservative.

Again, it is widely known that methyl mercury causes a lot of harm, but still nothing shows ethyl mercury to cause any harm.

*edited; I forgot to add "not" before "to bioaccumulate"!

>> ^dag:
I'm definitely not arguing that vaccines haven't saved many, many lives - but I would posit that a better understanding of how infectious diseases transmitted helped too. Quarantine, hygiene - better health and diet in the 20th century all had a role to play.
I understand the "free-loader" dilemma too, and recongnise that it was selfish choice.


I would posit that decisions regarding your own child's welfare are rarely selfish. Parental instincts are to forgo that remote chance of adverse reaction. Parents can't help that, can we?

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Selfish in that self-preservation extends to our progeny. I like Dawkins' quote that he would give his life for a brother, or two cousins.

(Hey, Snooze,) we need a medicine/health/pharma channel...

^translated: I ran out of somas and xanax yesterday....

"Batteries of childhood Vaccines in the 60s, made me the man I am today."
-choggie kendall

This post has been removed from the Lies channel by channel owner Fjnbk. Please review the FAQ to learn about appropriate channel assignments.

I would almost argue that it should be in the Lies channel, because they're spewing a lot of them in this interview.

I'm going to go ahead and selfishly direct people to this video I just submitted (http://www.videosift.com/video/Do-Vaccines-Cause-Autism-A-Detailed-Examination) which is a very well done video talking about the lack of evidence for vaccinations causing autism.

I do this, because it seems like there's more Anti-Vaccination videos around here, than - not to say "pro" - but ones with actual information. Not just talking heads saying "the science has been done! it says they cause autism!".

Wasn't assburgers first discovered in cows?

Finally, proof that all of this is crap: http://www.videosift.com/video/Do-Vaccines-Cause-Autism-A-Detailed-Examination

Please find me a single peer-reviewed scientific paper that links Autism to vaccines. Not some crap you find on the web. I want a scientific publication.

Change Thiomersal and mercury to "Cocopuffs", and that is the equivalent of what this sounds like to me after reading the scientific literature.

Look people you can't have it both ways: either you believe in Science and the Scientific method and accept that within the confines of the experiments things like Global Warming are true. Or you reject Science, and maintain that it is a lie.

I have said this before:

"We have to be willing to accept the results that science gives us. If we experimentally determine something to be true, then to the best of our knowledge within the confines of the experiment, it is true. And we should accept that truth until another experiment proves otherwise. This doesn't mean we shouldn't question these truths. What it means is if we decide to call them false then we better have damn good evidence. To do things differently is a slap in the face to everyone who calls themselves a scientist. And I take it personally."

>> ^Raigen:
His YouTube Desc:
Part II of my series on vaccination...


Click on that, Raigen did a nice job there.

oh and *lies

Adding video to channels (Lies) - requested by MycroftHomlz.